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The City of God

Chapter 15.--Whether We are to Believe that God, as He Has Always Been Sovereign Lord, Has Always Had Creatures Over Whom He Exercised His Sovereignty; And in What Sense We Can Say that the Creature Has Always Been, and Yet Cannot Say It is Co-Eternal.

For my own part, indeed, as I dare not say that there ever was a time when the Lord God was not Lord, ¹ so I ought not to doubt that man had no existence before time, and was first created in time. But when I consider what God could be the Lord of, if there was not always some creature, I shrink from making any assertion, remembering my own insignificance, and that it is written, "What man is he that can know the counsel of God? or who can think what the will of the Lord is? For the thoughts of mortal men are timid, and our devices are but uncertain. For the corruptible body presseth down the soul, and the earthly tabernacle weigheth down the mind that museth upon many things." ² Many things certainly do I muse upon in this earthly tabernacle, because the one thing which is true among the many, or beyond the many, I cannot find. If, then, among these many thoughts, I say that there have always been creatures for Him to be Lord of, who is always and ever has been Lord, but that these creatures have not always been the same, but succeeded one another (for we would not seem to say that any is co-eternal with the Creator, an assertion condemned equally by faith and sound reason), I must take care lest I fall into the absurd and ignorant error of maintaining that by these successions and changes mortal creatures have always existed, whereas the immortal creatures had not begun to exist until the date of our own world, when the angels were created; if at least the angels are intended by that light which was first made, or, rather, by that heaven of which it is said, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." ³ The angels, at least did not exist before they were created; for if we say that they have always existed, we shall seem to make them co-eternal with the Creator. Again, if I say that the angels were not created in time, but existed before all times, as those over whom God, who has ever been Sovereign, exercised His sovereignty, then I shall be asked whether, if they were created before all time, they, being creatures, could possibly always exist. It may perhaps be replied, Why not always, since that which is in all time may very properly be said to be "always?" Now so true is it that these angels have existed in all time that even before time was they were created; if at least time began with the heavens, and the angels existed before the heavens. And if time was even before the heavenly bodies, not indeed marked by hours, days, months, and years,--for these measures of time's periods which are commonly and properly called times, did manifestly begin with the motion of the heavenly bodies, and so God said, when He appointed them, "Let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and for years," ⁴ --if, I say, time was before these heavenly bodies by some changing movement, whose parts succeeded one another and could not exist simultaneously, and if there was some such movement among the angels which necessitated the existence of time, and that they from their very creation should be subject to these temporal changes, then they have existed in all time, for time came into being along with them. And who will say that what was in all time, was not always?

But if I make such a reply, it will be said to me, How, then, are they not co-eternal with the Creator, if He and they always have been? How even can they be said to have been created, if we are to understand that they have always existed? What shall we reply to this? Shall we say that both statements are true? that they always have been, since they have been in all time, they being created along with time, or time along with them, and yet that also they were created? For, similarly, we will not deny that time itself was created, though no one doubts that time has been in all time; for if it has not been in all time, then there was a time when there was no time. But the most foolish person could not make such an assertion. For we can reasonably say there was a time when Rome was not; there was a time when Jerusalem was not; there was a time when Abraham was not; there was a time when man was not, and so on: in fine, if the world was not made at the commencement of time, but after some time had elapsed, we can say there was a time when the world was not. But to say there was a time when time was not, is as absurd as to say there was a man when there was no man; or, this world was when this world was not. For if we are not referring to the same object, the form of expression may be used, as, there was another man when this man was not. Thus we can reasonably say there was another time when this time was not; but not the merest simpleton could say there was a time when there was no time. As, then, we say that time was created, though we also say that it always has been, since in all time time has been, so it does not follow that if the angels have always been, they were therefore not created. For we say that they have always been, because they have been in all time; and we say they have been in all time, because time itself could no wise be without them. For where there is no creature whose changing movements admit of succession, there cannot be time at all. And consequently, even if they have always existed, they were created; neither, if they have always existed, are they therefore co-eternal with the Creator. For He has always existed in unchangeable eternity; while they were created, and are said to have been always, because they have been in all time, time being impossible without the creature. But time passing away by its changefulness, cannot be co-eternal with changeless eternity. And consequently, though the immortality of the angels does not pass in time, does not become past as if now it were not, nor has a future as if it were not yet, still their movements, which are the basis of time, do pass from future to past; and therefore they cannot be co-eternal with the Creator, in whose movement we cannot say that there has been that which now is not, or shall be that which is not yet. Wherefore, if God always has been Lord, He has always had creatures under His dominion,--creatures, however, not begotten of Him, but created by Him out of nothing; nor co-eternal with Him, for He was before them though at no time without them, because He preceded them, not by the lapse of time, but by His abiding eternity. But if I make this reply to those who demand how He was always Creator, always Lord, if there were not always a subject creation; or how this was created, and not rather co-eternal with its Creator, if it always was, I fear I may be accused of recklessly affirming what I know not, instead of teaching what I know. I return, therefore, to that which our Creator has seen fit that we should know; and those things which He has allowed the abler men to know in this life, or has reserved to be known in the next by the perfected saints, I acknowledge to be beyond my capacity. But I have thought it right to discuss these matters without making positive assertions, that they who read may be warned to abstain from hazardous questions, and may not deem themselves fit for everything. Let them rather endeavor to obey the wholesome injunction of the apostle, when he says, "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." ⁵ For if an infant receive nourishment suited to its strength, it becomes capable, as it grows, of taking more; but if its strength and capacity be overtaxed, it dwines away in place of growing.

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De civitate Dei (CCSL)

Caput XVI: An ut deus semper etiam dominus fuisse intellegatur, credendum sit creaturam quoque numquam defuisse cui dominaretur, et quomodo dicatur semper creatum quod dici non potest coaeternum.

Ego quidem sicut dominum deum aliquando dominum non fuisse dicere non audeo, ita hominem numquam antea fuisse et ex quodam tempore primum hominem creatum esse dubitare non debeo. sed cum cogito cuius rei dominus semper fuerit, si semper creatura non fuit, adfirmare aliquid pertimesco, quia et me ipsum intueor et scriptum esse recolo: quis hominum potest scire consilium dei, aut quis poterit cogitare quid uelit dominus? cogitationes enim mortalium timidae et incertae adinuentiones nostrae. corruptibile enim corpus adgrauat animam, et deprimit terrena inhabitatio sensum multa cogitantem. ex his igitur, quae in hac terrena inhabitatione multa cogito - ideo utique multa, quia unum, quod ex illis uel praeter illa, quod forte non cogito, uerum est, inuenire non possum -, si dixero semper fuisse creaturam, cuius dominus esset, qui semper est dominus nec dominus umquam non fuit: sed nunc illam, nunc aliam per alia atque alia temporum spatia, ne aliquam creatori coaeternam esse dicamus, quod fides ratioque sana condemnat: cauendum est, ne sit absurdum et a luce ueritatis alienum mortalem quidem per uices temporum semper fuisse creaturam, decedentem aliam, aliam succedentem; inmortalem uero non esse coepisse, nisi cum ad nostrum saeculum uentum est, quando et angeli creati sunt, si eos recte lux illa primum facta significat aut illud potius caelum, de quo dictum est: in principio fecit deus caelum et terram, cum tamen non fuerint, antequam fierent, ne inmortales, si semper fuisse dicuntur, deo coaeterni esse credantur. si autem dixero non in tempore creatos angelos, sed ante omnia tempora et ipsos fuisse, quorum deus dominus esset, qui numquam nisi dominus fuit: quaeretur a me etiam, si ante omnia tempora facti sunt, utrum semper potuerint esse qui facti sunt. hic respondendum forte uideatur: quomodo non semper, cum id, quod est omni tempore, non inconuenienter semper esse dicatur? usque adeo autem isti omni tempore fuerunt, ut etiam ante omnia tempora facti sint; si tamen a caelo coepta sunt tempora, et illi iam erant ante caelum. at si tempus non a caelo, uerum et ante caelum fuit; non quidem in horis et diebus et mensibus et annis - nam istae dimensiones temporalium spatiorum, quae usitate ac proprie dicuntur tempora, manifestum est quod a motu siderum coeperint; unde et deus, cum haec institueret, dixit: et sint in signa et in tempora et in dies et in annos - , sed in aliquo mutabili motu, cuius aliud prius, aliud posterius praeterit, eo quod simul esse non possunt; - si ergo ante caelum in angelicis motibus tale aliquid fuit et ideo tempus iam fuit atque angeli, ex quo facti sunt, temporaliter mouebantur: etiam sic omni tempore fuerunt, quandoquidem cum illis facta sunt tempora. quis autem dicat: non semper fuit, quod omni tempore fuit? sed si hoc respondero, dicetur mihi: quomodo ergo non coaeterni creatori, si semper ille, semper illi fuerunt? quomodo etiam creati dicendi sunt, si semper fuisse intelleguntur? ad hoc quid respondebitur? an dicendum est et semper eos fuisse, quoniam omni tempore fuerunt, qui cum tempore facti sunt, aut cum quibus facta sunt tempora, et tamen creatos? neque enim et ipsa tempora creata esse negabimus, quamuis omni tempore tempus fuisse nemo ambigat. nam si non omni tempore fuit tempus, erat ergo tempus, quando nullum erat tempus. quis hoc stultissimus dixerit? possumus enim recte dicere: erat tempus, quando non erat Roma; erat tempus, quando non erat Hierusalem; erat tempus, quando non erat Abraham; erat tempus, quando non erat homo, et si quid huiusmodi; postremo si non cum initio temporis, sed post aliquod tempus factus est mundus, possumus dicere: erat tempus, quando non erat mundus; at uero: erat tempus, quando nullum erat tempus, tam inconuenienter dicimus, ac si quisquam dicat: erat homo, quando nullus erat homo, aut: erat iste mundus, quando iste non erat mundus. si enim de alio atque alio intellegatur, potest dici aliquo modo, hoc est: erat alius homo, quando non erat iste homo; sic ergo: erat aliud tempus, quando non erat hoc tempus, recte possumus dicere; at uero: erat tempus, quando nullum erat tempus, quis uel insipientissimus dixerit? sicut ergo dicimus creatum tempus, cum ideo semper fuisse dicatur, quia omni tempore tempus fuit: ita non est consequens, ut, si semper fuerunt angeli, ideo non sint creati, ut propterea semper fuisse dicantur, quia omni tempore fuerunt, et propterea omni tempore fuerunt, quia nullo modo sine his ipsa tempora esse potuerunt. ubi enim nulla creatura est, cuius mutabilibus motibus tempora peragantur, tempora omnino esse non possunt; ac per hoc etsi semper fuerunt, creati sunt, nec si semper fuerunt, ideo creatori coaeterni sunt. ille enim semper fuit aeternitate inmutabili; isti autem facti sunt; sed ideo semper fuisse dicuntur, quia omni tempore fuerunt, sine quibus tempora nullo modo esse potuerunt; tempus autem quoniam mutabilitate transcurrit, aeternitati inmutabili non potest esse coaeternum. ac per hoc etiamsi inmortalitas angelorum non transit in tempore, nec praeterita est quasi iam non sit, nec futura quasi nondum sit: tamen eorum motus, quibus tempora peraguntur, ex futuro in praeteritum transeunt, et ideo creatori, in cuius motu dicendum non est uel fuisse quod iam non sit, uel futurum esse quod nondum sit, coaeterni esse non possunt. quapropter si deus semper dominus fuit, semper habuit creaturam suo dominatui seruientem; uerumtamen non de ipso genitam, sed ab ipso de nihilo factam nec ei coaeternam; erat quippe ante illam, quamuis nullo tempore sine illa; non eam spatio transcurrente, sed manente perpetuitate praecedens. sed hoc si respondero eis qui requirunt, quomodo semper creator, semper dominus fuit, si creatura seruiens non semper fuit, aut quomodo creata est et non potius creatori coaeterna est, si semper fuit: uereor ne facilius iudicer adfirmare quod nescio, quam docere quod scio. redeo igitur ad id, quod creator noster scire nos uoluit; illa uero, quae uel sapientioribus in hac uita scire permisit uel omnino perfectis in alia uita scienda seruauit, ultra uires meas esse confiteor. sed ideo putaui sine adfirmatione tractanda, ut qui haec legunt uideant, a quibus quaestionum periculis debeant temperare, nec ad omnia se idoneos arbitrentur potiusque intellegant quam sit apostolo obtemperandum praecipienti salubriter, ubi ait: dico autem per gratiam dei quae data est mihi omnibus qui sunt in uobis, non plus sapere quam oportet sapere, sed sapere ad temperantiam, unicuique sicut deus partitus est mensuram fidei. si enim pro uiribus suis alatur infans, fiet, ut crescendo plus capiat; si autem uires suae capacitatis excedat, deficiet antequam crescat.